Jehovah's Witnesses Admit Error!

You misrepresent my faith while I misrepresent yours?

  If you've engaged any LDS apologists as of late I'm sure you've heard something along the lines of  "You have no idea what we believe", or "You're misrepresenting our faith".  This is usually being said to someone who is former LDS and most often a former Temple Mormon.  When this part is brought up they will often they say that they obviously didn't have a true confirmation from the Holy Spirit. Yet what they are missing are the facts that clearly show Mormonism is nothing more than a modern day blasphemy. They either don't care or turn a blind eye to the teaching manuals from their own church that clearly show how the quotes posted by former leaders reflect that which is taught within the LDS church.

 At some point during the conversation after they realize their points have no validity or you have asked them a question they know they can't answer honestly without admitting their wrong, you are almost assured that they will bring up how you follow the Nicene creed. Rather than rehash the same old argument I encourage you to read Eric Johnson's posting on the MRM Blog.

Can we see evidence of the trinity in scripture?  Absolutely for it's written all throughout Gods Word which you can see in the chart above.  However there is another way that might be able to help those who question or deny the trinity understand it a little better. How many Old Testament Tabernacles/Temples where there? One. How many parts to the tabernacle where there? Three, Outer court, Inner court (Holy Place), and the Holy of Holy's. Three parts to the temple yet only one temple.  Each part no less important than the other two and the temple wouldn't be the all three parts.  Those who deny the trinity refuse to realize that the Godhead as illustrated above is seen from even Genesis when God said "Let US make man in OUR own image".  This example also shows how a modalistic view of God is impossible.  All three exist at the same time and are separate from each other at all times. Each part has it's own distinct function yet as stated before is no less a part of the temple.

  Because the LDS feel they have to work in order to make themselves worthy before God they in turn see the Bibles grace as cheap. For if a person claims to be forgiven before they earn it then they can go around killing, stealing, and lying with no worries of punishment for the sin. You will often see Mormons use the second half of Philippians 2:12 out of context to show how we need to work for salvation however lets look at it shall we.

"Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling."

As we can see from the first portion of the verse he is addressing those who are already saved, not those who are working towards it. As a result of being saved we then go out for works knowing the price that was paid for them. (Ephesians 2:10)

  As a result of a Mormons upbringing they assume that the church is the building a person attends and defines their version of truth. They think that the church we attend defines our definition of truth like it does theirs.  Any Born Again Christian understands knows that the building someone choices to worship in doesn't always define their beliefs.  A true Christian rely's on the Word of God to mold their will to His, not a self proclaimed prophet. Jesus is our Truth (John 14:6) not a church.

Foolishness or Defense?

When your apart of a ministry such as Ephesians 2 you tend to get quite the reaction from LDS apologist.
One such apologist who's name is Victor messaged me asking why I refused to allow him into a group our ministry has on facebook.  This group is for Christians who support Ephesians 2 Ministry and to allow them to ask for prayer or advise with any and all situations (ministry related or not).  Now why would an LDS apologist want to be a part of this other than to cause issues?  I have stated from the very beginning that Ephesians 2 Ministry is not for those who are content being LDS regardless of facts presented to them.  As the old saying goes you can lead a horse to water you just can't make them drink.  He started out the conversation by saying...

"I find it amazing how a ministry founded to reach out the the "lost" actually avoids those they claim are lost.  Or, better yet, a ministry that merely targets those with weaknesses in their faith, all the while avoiding those who actually have a strong faith and an ability to respond to the claims of said ministries.  Since when did the Great Commission omit any person?"

Now don't get me wrong.  Reaching the lost is the ultimate goal for Ephesians 2.  Not only by those who are a part of our team but making sure all those we serve have the knowledge and understanding to do so.  However there is a difference in trying to reach those who are lost and engaging those who are only out to argue. 2 Timothy 2:23 "Again I say, don’t get involved in foolish, ignorant arguments that only start fights."

I often refer to their mindset as the "Red pill, Blue pill" argument. So you can understand what this means you can watch the video here. For someone such as Victor who has seen all the evidence against his faith and refuses to acknowledge the falsehoods and convince himself that facts don't exist is doing exactly what you hear in the video.  Believing what you want to, not what is real. Now after informing him I wasn't interested in getting into debates with him he commented saying...

"Not a debate, just biblical Christianity. Jesus Christ never missed an opportunity to teach those who were misguided."

Never missed an opportunity yes.  However he also knew when those around him were only looking to pick a fight as we see in Mark 14:61.  As you can see he is following the norm.  Seeing where the conversation was going to go I asked him no end the conversation and to not contact me further till he was done defending a lie.  He responds with..

""Faith comes by hearing and hearing comes by the Word of God." How shall the uninterested then hear if ministries, such as E2, only seeks out those with interest in hearing?"

Again he would be correct that faith comes by hearing.  A conversation like this would go nowhere with someone who not only isn't interested in hearing how their church is a fraud, but avidly defends it spite the facts. Now again don't misunderstand me.  Engaging LDS in conversation is vital if they are to realize what they've gotten themselves involved in.  However in the case of an apologist that will not be the case. He then attempts to defend his case by saying...

"How un-biblical you can be. Saul defended a lie, yet Jesus Christ sought him out on the road to Damascus.  He didn't say to Saul, "when you are done defending a lie feel free to look me up."

Thank you for comparing yourself to Saul defending a lie Victor, however you are trying to compare Saul conversing with Christians to Jesus encountering Saul.  I pray you yourself one day receive a similar vision and stop attacking God's Word. His intentions after this became even more clear as he spends just as much time attempting to correct the errors made in my responses done by my phones auto-correct feature.  This is why Ephesians 2 will never tolerate LDS apologist attempting their slight of hand on our facebook page or any other form of social media.  They will be quick to say we are trying to hide the truth while at the same time attempting to silence those who oppose their church.  When you engage someone who is LDS that you do not know personally do keep this tactic of theirs in the back of your mind.  Be aware that their purpose may only be to waist your time.

May God bless you and keep you safe.

How God Got Me Involved in Outreach to Mormon’s and JW’s

It was an interesting period in my life. I had just gotten married two months earlier. My wife and I were in the honeymoon stage our marriage, I was exploring a career change into financial planning, and, sinfully, I was almost solely focused on making money. I remember being very susceptible to greed at that time. God used a knock at my front door and a heartbreaking realization to bring me powerfully into the world of counter-cult apologetics.

I opened the door and standing before me was an elderly woman and a man named Clay. These two were dressed very properly, smiling politely and introduced themselves. They were Jehovah’s witnesses. They came bearing the “good news” of the Bible and God’s coming kingdom.

 I was stunned. Here before me were two lost souls, and beyond the “Are you a good person test” that I had learned from Ray Comfort, I had no idea how to share the gospel with them. I kindly listened to them and the whole time felt frustrated and disgusted at my own ignorance. How could I say that I loved these people, yet I had never really tried to learn what they believe so that I can more effectively share the gospel with them?

I had a new mission. My desire to pursue a career in financial planning almost immediately vanished and I began furiously inhaling any information about Jehovah’s Witnesses and Mormons. My best friend from 5th grade on, was and is a member of the Community of Christ (RLDS) church which also lead me to want to understand their faith better. I would sit down with Clay three times over the course of the next year or so and discuss the diety of Christ with him. Hebrews 1 became a common scripture for us to review and he admitted that he was at a loss when approaching Hebrews 1 in relation with Psalm 102. I have not met with him in over a year. I will be moving to Yakima, WA in June and plan to have one final discussion with him, where I will be sharing this document with him: http://4witness.org/wfj/jw-bookstore.php#pj_fact, along with this challenging quote:

“We need to examine, not only what we personally believe, but also what is taught by any religious organization with which we may be associated. Are its teachings in full harmony with Gods Word, or are they based on the traditions of men? If we are lovers of the truth, there is nothing to fear from such an examination. It should be the sincere desire of every one of us to learn what Gods will is for us, and then to do it." John 8:32 (The Truth That Leads To Eternal Life, 1968, p. 13) 

 My engagement with Mormons has been more consistent, and more consistently frustrating. While Clay, the Jehovah’s Witness, was willing to go to the scriptures with me, I felt that the Mormon missionaries would use the bible disingenuously and, when pressed for reasons why I should believe them, would constantly resort to the “I know it in my heart to be true” to which I would always reply, “But a Muslim, Catholic, Jehovah’s Witness can say the same thing. Why should I believe your feelings over theirs?”. I have yet to receive a satisfactory answer to this question, and I sincerely doubt that I ever will.

 My heart aches for anyone who is lost, but there is a special place in my heart for Mormon’s, Jehovah’s Witnesses and Catholics, as I grew up with them and know so many. I now have an unquenchable thirst in my life to reach the lost and to engage not only their hearts but to force them to THINK about the issues as well. I think many churches, heretical and orthodox alike, do not do effectively equip their congregations to approach faith with our minds turned on, as society moves farther away from logic oriented decision making, and leans more and more on emotional, self-centered pragmatism and hedonism.

Lord, save us from our wicked hearts (Jeremiah 17:9), help us to repent and to make sacrifices to share the gospel boldly, with those whom we love.

 -Neil (Neil is the founder of Soul-Winning Students which can be found at http://soulwinningstudents.com)

Don’t Get Roped In

I’m one of those people who likes to debate. Ya’ know the type that most people don’t want to sit and have a head-to-head disagreement with because I love to let someone talk and allow them to hang themselves? Yeah, that’s me. I firmly believe that any argument formed from a stance of ignorance is easily defeated by using the very words of the one attempting to promote it!!

Recently I began reading an article and knew that within a few pages such ignorance would be revealed- I was not disappointed.

The watchtower published an article entitled, “Should You Believe in The Trinity?” From the beginning the ignorance was amazingly thick. Various quotes were cited by one intelligent person and then another. The brightest among us on both sides of the issue were used to show that belief in the Trinity was a central teaching of the Christian Church. Several times it was mentioned that the smartest of the human race cannot understand- and consequently- fully explain or teach the Trinity.

Let’s take a pause here. I was taught in school that the best and brightest among us once strongly believed that the earth was flat. Also there was a time when the most respected astronomers believed that the earth was the center of the entire universe. A little more recently the brightest scientists taught that if the human body move faster than fifty miles per hour the skin would peel off our faces. What’s that I just heard? Oh, another jet just routinely broke the sound barrier.

(Sorry I was distracted for a second)

 My point here is obvious: Human understanding or the lack thereof has no bearing whatsoever on the Truth. The Truth is the Truth weather we believe, doubt, fully grasp or remain clueless.

Back to the article: I continued reading waiting for some small nugget of “evidence” that the Trinity really should be in question. I was looking for a somewhat reasonable explanation as to why the Watchtower has taken a stance of unbelief where the Trinity is concerned. What I found was an even more blatant misuse scripture out of context.

The Watchtower claims that the Triune nature of God could not have been revealed by God Himself because

“Devine revelation itself does not allow for such a view of God”.

It then immediately quotes 1 Corinthians 14:33 “God is not a God of confusion” as support!

WOW!! Talk about taking a verse out of context. This verse has nothing to do with explaining the Trinity. In fact it deals with the topic of using our spiritual gifts. Reading the verses before it, starting at verse 26 clearly reveals that fact.

Nor does this verse say “If man is confused by it then it must not have come from God”. Are you kidding me? I am confused by almost everything God reveals to me.

1.       Can anyone explain creation?  Ya’ know, God reached into nothing and brought the entire universe to life?

2.      Who fully grasps the fact that God is eternal having no beginning or no end?

3.      Tell me, who in the Watchtower, Mormonism, Philosophy or Christendom can fully understand and explain how the universe expands forever without borders!

4.      How did God hang the earth on nothing, set it to spin and sustain its perfect distance from the sun?

5.      And someone please rationally, logically- with our great human minds- explain the parting of the Red Sea, I dare ya!

6.      Better yet, tell me how Christ spoke, “Lazarus, come forth!” and a dead man walked out of a tomb wrapped in burial garb.

Let’s push passed the ignorance shall we?

 Looking to finite human logic to understand and/or explain an infinite, eternal, all-powerful, all knowing and all-present God is just plain nonsense.

This poorly written article also stated, “If the Trinity were true, it should be clearly and consistently presented in the Bible. Why? Because as the Apostles affirmed, the Bible is God’s revelation of Himself to mankind. And since we need to know God to worship Him acceptably, the Bible should be clear in telling us just who He is”.

It also mentioned that the correct way to understand God is from the scriptures and even Jesus used the scriptures, often saying, “It is written…”, so very true. So let’s look at scriptures to see what God has to say about Himself!!

Let’s take a topical approach

Trinity in Creation:

“In the beginning God (Elohim) created the Heavens and the Earth”- Genesis 1:1. Biblical study reveals that each part of the Trinity played a part in creation.

God the Father is the one “from whom all things come” according to 1 Corinthians 8:6. He planned and decreed creation- Acts 17:24-26. He did “everything in conformity with the purpose of His will as stated in Ephesians 1:11

John 1:3 asserts that Jesus-God the Son’s role in creation was that “Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that was made”. Colossians 1:6 affirms this: “All things were created by Him and for Him”.

The Holy Spirit “was hovering over the waters” according to Genesis 1:2. The Hebrew word for ‘hovering’ is important here because it gives a picture of an eagle hovering over its young in a supervising and protecting role. So the Holy Spirit was actively a part of creation, supervising it and ensuring its safe and secure development.

If there was only One Creator yet the Father, Son AND Holy Spirit were all a part of Creation then we can only conclude that all three of these personages are the Eternal Creator.

Biblical Evidence of the Trinity

The Father is called God- “of whom are all things” in 1 Corinthians 8:6 AND Jesus is called God- “by whom are all things” in that same verse.

The Son is called God- Hebrews 1:8 says, “But, of the Son He says, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, and the righteous scepter is the scepter of your Kingdom”. Also Jesus Himself said He was God when He stated, “I and the Father are one”. The Greek word for the word ‘one’ used in this verse means “of the same essence and substance”. So despite what anyone may say it does not mean “one in purpose” only. If Christ wanted us to believe that He was not God He would have used a word that clearly showed a distinction between him and the Father but He didn’t.

Giving further support for the fact that Jesus claimed to be God- and therefore the same as the Father- we read in John 8: 58 & 59 That Jesus stated”…before Abraham was born, I AM” The Jews recognized that Jesus was claiming to be the same I AM we read of in the Old Testament. They picked up stones in order to stone Him for what they believed to be blasphemy. They recognized that Jesus Christ claimed to BE GOD!

The Holy Spirit is called God: In Acts 5: 3-4 Peter asked Ananias why he had lied to the Holy Spirit and continued on to say “…You have not lied to men but to God”. Peter fully recognized that lying to the Holy Spirit is lying to God because they are one in the same.

The Biblical support for the trinity aka The Triune God goes on and on.

The message to us Bible-believing, Trinity-supporting Christians is simple. Do not Get Roped Into the sometimes well-worded, logical-sounding, seemingly-wise arguments of the Jehovah’s Witnesses (and Mormons). Study the Bible so well and to such a depth that when false teachings pop up, your mind refers back to scripture that shoots down the Devil’s mental and spiritual attacks found in their words. 

“I have hidden Your Word in my heart that I might not sin against You”- Psalm 119:11

Another way to say it is, "I have studied Your Word so deeply that I will not be roped into ignorance and Sin"

God Bless all my Trinity-believing Christians, stay Strong!!