How God Got Me Involved in Outreach to Mormon’s and JW’s

It was an interesting period in my life. I had just gotten married two months earlier. My wife and I were in the honeymoon stage our marriage, I was exploring a career change into financial planning, and, sinfully, I was almost solely focused on making money. I remember being very susceptible to greed at that time. God used a knock at my front door and a heartbreaking realization to bring me powerfully into the world of counter-cult apologetics.

I opened the door and standing before me was an elderly woman and a man named Clay. These two were dressed very properly, smiling politely and introduced themselves. They were Jehovah’s witnesses. They came bearing the “good news” of the Bible and God’s coming kingdom.

 I was stunned. Here before me were two lost souls, and beyond the “Are you a good person test” that I had learned from Ray Comfort, I had no idea how to share the gospel with them. I kindly listened to them and the whole time felt frustrated and disgusted at my own ignorance. How could I say that I loved these people, yet I had never really tried to learn what they believe so that I can more effectively share the gospel with them?

I had a new mission. My desire to pursue a career in financial planning almost immediately vanished and I began furiously inhaling any information about Jehovah’s Witnesses and Mormons. My best friend from 5th grade on, was and is a member of the Community of Christ (RLDS) church which also lead me to want to understand their faith better. I would sit down with Clay three times over the course of the next year or so and discuss the diety of Christ with him. Hebrews 1 became a common scripture for us to review and he admitted that he was at a loss when approaching Hebrews 1 in relation with Psalm 102. I have not met with him in over a year. I will be moving to Yakima, WA in June and plan to have one final discussion with him, where I will be sharing this document with him: http://4witness.org/wfj/jw-bookstore.php#pj_fact, along with this challenging quote:

“We need to examine, not only what we personally believe, but also what is taught by any religious organization with which we may be associated. Are its teachings in full harmony with Gods Word, or are they based on the traditions of men? If we are lovers of the truth, there is nothing to fear from such an examination. It should be the sincere desire of every one of us to learn what Gods will is for us, and then to do it." John 8:32 (The Truth That Leads To Eternal Life, 1968, p. 13) 

 My engagement with Mormons has been more consistent, and more consistently frustrating. While Clay, the Jehovah’s Witness, was willing to go to the scriptures with me, I felt that the Mormon missionaries would use the bible disingenuously and, when pressed for reasons why I should believe them, would constantly resort to the “I know it in my heart to be true” to which I would always reply, “But a Muslim, Catholic, Jehovah’s Witness can say the same thing. Why should I believe your feelings over theirs?”. I have yet to receive a satisfactory answer to this question, and I sincerely doubt that I ever will.

 My heart aches for anyone who is lost, but there is a special place in my heart for Mormon’s, Jehovah’s Witnesses and Catholics, as I grew up with them and know so many. I now have an unquenchable thirst in my life to reach the lost and to engage not only their hearts but to force them to THINK about the issues as well. I think many churches, heretical and orthodox alike, do not do effectively equip their congregations to approach faith with our minds turned on, as society moves farther away from logic oriented decision making, and leans more and more on emotional, self-centered pragmatism and hedonism.

Lord, save us from our wicked hearts (Jeremiah 17:9), help us to repent and to make sacrifices to share the gospel boldly, with those whom we love.

 -Neil (Neil is the founder of Soul-Winning Students which can be found at http://soulwinningstudents.com)

Don’t Get Roped In

I’m one of those people who likes to debate. Ya’ know the type that most people don’t want to sit and have a head-to-head disagreement with because I love to let someone talk and allow them to hang themselves? Yeah, that’s me. I firmly believe that any argument formed from a stance of ignorance is easily defeated by using the very words of the one attempting to promote it!!

Recently I began reading an article and knew that within a few pages such ignorance would be revealed- I was not disappointed.

The watchtower published an article entitled, “Should You Believe in The Trinity?” From the beginning the ignorance was amazingly thick. Various quotes were cited by one intelligent person and then another. The brightest among us on both sides of the issue were used to show that belief in the Trinity was a central teaching of the Christian Church. Several times it was mentioned that the smartest of the human race cannot understand- and consequently- fully explain or teach the Trinity.

Let’s take a pause here. I was taught in school that the best and brightest among us once strongly believed that the earth was flat. Also there was a time when the most respected astronomers believed that the earth was the center of the entire universe. A little more recently the brightest scientists taught that if the human body move faster than fifty miles per hour the skin would peel off our faces. What’s that I just heard? Oh, another jet just routinely broke the sound barrier.

(Sorry I was distracted for a second)

 My point here is obvious: Human understanding or the lack thereof has no bearing whatsoever on the Truth. The Truth is the Truth weather we believe, doubt, fully grasp or remain clueless.

Back to the article: I continued reading waiting for some small nugget of “evidence” that the Trinity really should be in question. I was looking for a somewhat reasonable explanation as to why the Watchtower has taken a stance of unbelief where the Trinity is concerned. What I found was an even more blatant misuse scripture out of context.

The Watchtower claims that the Triune nature of God could not have been revealed by God Himself because

“Devine revelation itself does not allow for such a view of God”.

It then immediately quotes 1 Corinthians 14:33 “God is not a God of confusion” as support!

WOW!! Talk about taking a verse out of context. This verse has nothing to do with explaining the Trinity. In fact it deals with the topic of using our spiritual gifts. Reading the verses before it, starting at verse 26 clearly reveals that fact.

Nor does this verse say “If man is confused by it then it must not have come from God”. Are you kidding me? I am confused by almost everything God reveals to me.

1.       Can anyone explain creation?  Ya’ know, God reached into nothing and brought the entire universe to life?

2.      Who fully grasps the fact that God is eternal having no beginning or no end?

3.      Tell me, who in the Watchtower, Mormonism, Philosophy or Christendom can fully understand and explain how the universe expands forever without borders!

4.      How did God hang the earth on nothing, set it to spin and sustain its perfect distance from the sun?

5.      And someone please rationally, logically- with our great human minds- explain the parting of the Red Sea, I dare ya!

6.      Better yet, tell me how Christ spoke, “Lazarus, come forth!” and a dead man walked out of a tomb wrapped in burial garb.

Let’s push passed the ignorance shall we?

 Looking to finite human logic to understand and/or explain an infinite, eternal, all-powerful, all knowing and all-present God is just plain nonsense.

This poorly written article also stated, “If the Trinity were true, it should be clearly and consistently presented in the Bible. Why? Because as the Apostles affirmed, the Bible is God’s revelation of Himself to mankind. And since we need to know God to worship Him acceptably, the Bible should be clear in telling us just who He is”.

It also mentioned that the correct way to understand God is from the scriptures and even Jesus used the scriptures, often saying, “It is written…”, so very true. So let’s look at scriptures to see what God has to say about Himself!!

Let’s take a topical approach

Trinity in Creation:

“In the beginning God (Elohim) created the Heavens and the Earth”- Genesis 1:1. Biblical study reveals that each part of the Trinity played a part in creation.

God the Father is the one “from whom all things come” according to 1 Corinthians 8:6. He planned and decreed creation- Acts 17:24-26. He did “everything in conformity with the purpose of His will as stated in Ephesians 1:11

John 1:3 asserts that Jesus-God the Son’s role in creation was that “Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that was made”. Colossians 1:6 affirms this: “All things were created by Him and for Him”.

The Holy Spirit “was hovering over the waters” according to Genesis 1:2. The Hebrew word for ‘hovering’ is important here because it gives a picture of an eagle hovering over its young in a supervising and protecting role. So the Holy Spirit was actively a part of creation, supervising it and ensuring its safe and secure development.

If there was only One Creator yet the Father, Son AND Holy Spirit were all a part of Creation then we can only conclude that all three of these personages are the Eternal Creator.

Biblical Evidence of the Trinity

The Father is called God- “of whom are all things” in 1 Corinthians 8:6 AND Jesus is called God- “by whom are all things” in that same verse.

The Son is called God- Hebrews 1:8 says, “But, of the Son He says, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, and the righteous scepter is the scepter of your Kingdom”. Also Jesus Himself said He was God when He stated, “I and the Father are one”. The Greek word for the word ‘one’ used in this verse means “of the same essence and substance”. So despite what anyone may say it does not mean “one in purpose” only. If Christ wanted us to believe that He was not God He would have used a word that clearly showed a distinction between him and the Father but He didn’t.

Giving further support for the fact that Jesus claimed to be God- and therefore the same as the Father- we read in John 8: 58 & 59 That Jesus stated”…before Abraham was born, I AM” The Jews recognized that Jesus was claiming to be the same I AM we read of in the Old Testament. They picked up stones in order to stone Him for what they believed to be blasphemy. They recognized that Jesus Christ claimed to BE GOD!

The Holy Spirit is called God: In Acts 5: 3-4 Peter asked Ananias why he had lied to the Holy Spirit and continued on to say “…You have not lied to men but to God”. Peter fully recognized that lying to the Holy Spirit is lying to God because they are one in the same.

The Biblical support for the trinity aka The Triune God goes on and on.

The message to us Bible-believing, Trinity-supporting Christians is simple. Do not Get Roped Into the sometimes well-worded, logical-sounding, seemingly-wise arguments of the Jehovah’s Witnesses (and Mormons). Study the Bible so well and to such a depth that when false teachings pop up, your mind refers back to scripture that shoots down the Devil’s mental and spiritual attacks found in their words. 

“I have hidden Your Word in my heart that I might not sin against You”- Psalm 119:11

Another way to say it is, "I have studied Your Word so deeply that I will not be roped into ignorance and Sin"

God Bless all my Trinity-believing Christians, stay Strong!!

Mormon god vs Christian God

Is God eternal or did He become God? Where did He come from? Where is He located? Does He care about us on earth or has He created us and then left us to fend for ourselves?

Every religion has its own view on the nature of God or a “higher power” which is ultimately responsible for the creation and sustaining of the universe. Today we will take a look at both the Mormon and Orthodox Christian views of God’s nature. The information given on the Mormon view will be taken directly from Mormon Scripture and other Mormon publications. The Christian view is given based on the information in the Holy Bible. I do this so that there is no personal bias. It will be a representation of what both systems of faith profess to believe and therefore teach.

What does the LDS organization say about the nature of God?

More than one God:

First, in The Pearl of Great Price, Abraham 5:4 states that the gods created the earth and the heavens. Verse seven of this same chapter states that the “gods formed man from the dust”. Clearly the LDS teaching is that there is more than one God.

Joseph Smith once stated, "I wish to declare I have always and in all congregations when I have preached on the subject of the Deity, it has been the plurality of gods". This quote is recorded in the History of the Church 6: 474. (Emphasis added by me)

Furthermore, Brigham Young, the second LDS prophet said, "How many Gods there are, I do not know. But there never was a time when there were not Gods..."  This statement is from the Journal of Discourses 7:333.

Mormon Apostle Orson Pratt taught, "We were begotten by our Father in Heaven; the person of our Father in Heaven was begotten on a previous heavenly world by His Father; and again, He was begotten by a still more ancient Father, and so on, from one generation to generation", from page 132 of The Seer, a Mormon publication.

These statements are in direct contrast to the Christian teaching that there exists only one God.

First Timothy 2:5 says “For there is only one God and one Mediator who can reconcile God and humanity--the man Christ Jesus.”

Joshua 22: 22 says,

“The Mighty One, God, the Lord, the Mighty One, God, the Lord! He knows, and may Israel itself know…”

Also consider 1 Corinthians 8: 6: “…yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.

Christians believe that there is only one God in whom all power resides. To state that there is any God other than this one God is in direct contradiction to the Bible and therefore not a Christian belief. By the evidence states so far it is obvious that the god of the Mormon faith is not the same as the God of Christianity.

Jesus is not God?

First Corinthians 8:6 and 1 Timothy 2:5, not only state that there is only one God but that God was physically seen on earth in the person of Jesus Christ.

First John 1:1 states, “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God”. 

This same verse in Joseph Smith’s translation of the Bible aka The Inspired Version, reads like this:

“In the beginning was the gospel preached through the Son. And the gospel was the word, and the word was with the Son, and the Son was with God, and the Son was of God.

Smith blatantly strips Jesus Christ of His rightful deity by adding in the word ‘of’. Obviously the LDS organization teaches that Jesus was not God in the flesh which means they are not teaching a core Christian belief.

The Trinity (a.k.a. Triune God)

This also leads to another LDS belief that God is not one being comprised of three persons. According to a friend/relative of mine who served twice as a Mormon Bishop, Mormons profess that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are three separate Gods who are “one in purpose”. I also had an online chat with a Mormon missionary who verified this LDS belief.

In contrast, we read in John 10: 30 where Christ stated, “I and the Father are one”. Christ used the Greek word for ‘one’ which means, “Of the same essence and substance”. It doesn’t get any plainer or bolder than that. Jesus stated that He was of the same stuff that makes up the God that created the universe. He is of the very same unique fabric as God.

Mormons may use the events surrounding Jesus’ baptism as evidence that there is more than one god. When Jesus rose out of the water in Matthew 3:17 the Holy Spirit descended upon Him in the form of a dove and a voice from heaven said, “This is my beloved Son in Him I am well pleased”. Here were see Jesus in the water, The Holy Spirit descending from heaven and the voice of the Father in Heaven. Mormons see this as three gods; Christians see this as God showing proof of His omnipresence. The God of Christianity has the ability to be in three places and in three forms all at once. Apparently the Mormon god does not share this amazing trait.

This is just further proof that Christianity and Mormonism are absolutely not the same when it comes to their beliefs on the nature of God.

It is important to realize that there are definite, undeniable differences between the god of Mormonism and that of Christianity. Why? Because many Christians join the Mormon organization thinking that they’ll be able to take their Christianity with them. However, the subtle “bait and switch” approach of the LDS organization slowly becomes apparent upon deep, detailed investigation of their beliefs.

Also, in speaking with several Mormons I have been met with statements to the effect of, “There really is no difference between what you believe and what we believe. We both serve the same God”.

The fact is, upon detailed investigation we discover that the god spoken of and taught within the walls of Mormonism is quite different than the God of the Christian faith. Let us not be fooled into thinking that Mormonism is an example/extension of our faith in the God of the Bible. It is not a denomination within Christianity in the least bit.

In my opinion Mormonism is one of Satan’s most crafty, detailed, world-wide deceptions. The Latter Day Saints appear, in many ways, to teach and believe the same message of Jesus Christ- but, these few examples show the Truth!!

It is a fundamental believe that God is three persons which comprise One being. We believe that Jesus Christ was God made flesh, born of a virgin in the small town of Bethlehem. We believe that faith in Jesus Christ alone- as shown by the thief on the cross- is needed for salvation. We believe that God is eternal, having no beginning and no end and as such he was not created by anyone.

Due to their teachings and their lack of belief in basic core values concerning God’s nature we must reach the obvious and logical conclusion that Mormons do not believe in the same God that Christians do, period!

Implementing the Impossible Gospel

One of my New Year's resolutions was to be less confrontational when speaking with and about the LDS. That lone caused me to reevaluate my approach and discussion platform.

I have recently opened a Twitter account and I have slowly gotten the hang of it. The last few nights, I have been perusing the hashtags #Mormon and #LDS to look for opportunities to converse with people. Well, last night I sent a few tweets with little to no success, but I finally found a tweet from a guy named Bobby from Colorado who is a radio personality. We were able to converse and some traction was made.

For this conversation, I will use 'B' for Bobby, and 'J' for Josh of Ephesians 2 Ministry. Many of the responses were multi-part tweets, but I will compile them.

This was the original tweet that I responded to: "I always want to be with my own family....and The Lord has shown me how I can." #Mormon #LDS #Twitterstake #God #JesusChrist #HolySpirit

J: And how is that? Could you show me a BofM reference or Bible reference about eternal families? I would appreciate that. Thanks.

B: This is what I found for ya my friend =] http://www.lds.org/general-conference/1980/04/celestial-marriages-and-eternal-families?lang=eng …

B: PS, thank you for allowing me to research a little bit. That quote is from a hymn I sang at a funeral today. Felt inspired to share

J: That's great info. And I'm glad I got you researching. What happens to a person after death? Bible or BofM reference, too please.

B: I would refer you to http://LDS.org  my friend. I appreciate all your questions but I would go there & search references for u.

(At this point, I thought he was just going to be done talking. But I persisted.)

J: Can I share a BofM verse with YOU? Will you read Alma 34:32-35 for me and get back with me?

B: my question to you before I do that is, are you genuinely curious about my faith, or are you trying to discredit it?

J: I grew up LDS and could not get my questions answered. Too many inconsistencies. I was just wondering your thoughts on the verses.

B: ok, well inconsistencies, I've found tend to come from a lack of understanding or knowledge. When that has happened to me before I've prayed to Heavenly Father for understanding. Honestly, I've come to the realization that I am supposed to receive certain knowledges and truths when I am ready to receive them. As for that scripture in Alma, what I take from it is that this mortal life is a time of a probation. A time to repent for those transgressions we make daily. The mind/thoughts/desires are what we take with us and we should not wait until that time The Lord calls us home to repent. And that's my perspective on it. Hope that helps.

J: Have you repented for all of your transgressions that you daily commit? Just wondering. I know I struggle every day

B: I do try. I must admit it is not a daily occurrence for which I must work on my daily prayer habits. The Lord knows our hearts & intentions.

J: Well, I read Miracle of Forgiveness, and here is a quote in it: 'There is one crucial test of repentance. This is abandonment of the sin. Desire is not sufficient. In other words, it is not real repentance until one has abandoned the error of his ways and started on a new path the saving power does not extend to him who merely wants to change his life. Trying is not sufficient.

B: well to you I would say yes, I have repented of some issues in my life, and have abandoned them. However, all of us, shall remain imperfect beings in this mortal life. That's the beauty of forgiveness and sincere repentance. Faith without works is dead. I've read that talk. I feel the angle you are coming from is that we must remain free of transgression from repentance from here on out. That's not practical for any man or woman. We will always fall short of the Grace of God, but through His sacrifice we can be made clean.

J: But, what about 1 Nephi 3:7?

B: I assume you are referring being baptized unto repentance?

J: Oh no... here's the verse: 1 Nephi 3:7 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, said unto my father: I will go and do the things which the Lord hath commanded, for I know that the Lord giveth no commandments unto the children of men, save he shall prepare a way for them that they may accomplish the thing which he commandeth them.

B: okay, so what is your specific question regarding those verses?

J: If it's not practical for us to be free of sin and we fall short, how is it that "the Lord giveth no commandments unto the children of men, save he shall prepare a way for them that they may accomplish the thing which he commandeth them."

B: you and I and the rest of the waking world have a little gift called "free agency." God does not expect us to be perfect, however we are commanded to obey the precepts He has brought forth in His Gospel. He prepares the way through those scriptures guidelines and ways we may grow closer to him if we open our hearts and minds to it"

J: Wouldn't one of those precepts be full repentance, though? Alma 11:37 "And I say unto you again that he cannot save them in their sins; for I cannot deny his word, and he hath said that no unclean thing can inherit the kingdom of heaven; therefore how can ye be saved, except ye inherit the kingdom of heaven? Therefore, ye cannot be saved in your sins.

B: listen Josh. I respect your curiosity and thirst for Gospel knowledge, but we are going back and forth to no success of your questions. I sincerely feel you would have a phenomenal conversation with a Missionary or other Mormon confidant. I am not trying to shrug you off, but it's late, and we could go back and forth till the wee hours. I hope you find the answers you seek from God and I wish you well my friend. Be blessed and thanks for the inspiring conversation. All my best =]

J: Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions and talk with me. It's great that you were willing to share your knowledge and faith. Please consider Ephesians 2:8-9 'For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.' God bless you my friend

B: I must say I appreciate your questions and faith. Many people of whatever faith backdown due to lack of knowledge. But it is thru Christ-like dialogue we can come to agree or compassionately disagree about our beliefs. May God bless you too.
_____________________________________________________________

The Impossible Gospel provided for some good conversation and some critical thinking. I pray that Bobby will reflect on our conversation the next time the subject comes up and will research further into what he believes. He was very genuine in his responses and non-confrontational. He really had a desire to answer my questions. I believe that if I had started the conversation much earlier, we would have been able to walk through the Impossible Gospel even further... but, I didn't start until nearly 11pm.

Please join me in prayer for Bobby and all LDS people.

Be careful, the LDS church doesn't want you reading this.

It is pretty well known now that facebook will remove postings because it supposedly violates the terms.  However there is one as of late that seems to be getting censored rather quickly.  So in an effort to help you understand what is going on within the world of Mormonism we are placing the article here for you to read.

It is about an LDS missionary who is guilty of things we often hear about in the Catholic church or Kingdom Halls.  That is taking advantage of a child.  Now I can understand why they would not want this seen.  However that will not stop us from making sure then information is getting out.  Please follow the link below.  You may place any comments you like on our facebook page however should they be removed we may need to move it over to our discussion forum for your safety.  This posting has been removed at least 4 times from 2 different pages.

Click HERE for the article.